Amanpour and Company | June 23, 2023 | Season 2023

>>> HELLO EVERYONE, WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY FROM GREECE.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> I DO BELIEVE THE DEMOCRACY WILL WIN IF WE FIGHT FOR IT.

>> MY EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA.

WE EXPLORE GLOBAL THREATS TO DEMOCRACY INCLUDING WAR IN EUROPE AND RACIAL DIVISION IN AMERICA.

THEN.

>> WE ARE WHOLE PEOPLE.

YOU CAN'T BE IN THIS WORK AND NOT WAKE UP EVERY DAY HOPEFUL FOR THE FUTURE.

>> WE SIT DOWN WITH A NEW GENERATION OF DEMOCRATIC VOICES.

THREE OBAMA FOUNDATION LEADERS WORKING TO TACKLE CRITICAL CHALLENGES TODAY.

>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

SUE AND ED WAR WACHENHEIN THE THIRD.

JIM ATTWOOD, AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT.

TO NOT MISS WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA, WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP.

RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN ATHENS.

ON THIS PBS PROGRAM, WE ARE COMMITTED TO EXPLORING DEMOCRACY.

DOCUMENTING EFFORTS TO PROTECT VOTER PARTICIPATION AND THOSE EFFORTS THAT UNDERMINE DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES WHICH IS WHY WE ARE COMING TO YOU FROM THE HEART OF ATHENS WHERE DEMOCRACY WAS BORN.

AND WHERE I SAT DOWN WITH PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA WHOSE POST PRESIDENCY IS DEVOTED TO STRENGTHENING THE FOUNDATIONS OF DEMOCRACY NOW AND IN THE FUTURE, AT HOME, AND ABROAD.

OBAMA PREVIOUSLY CAME TO ATHENS BACK IN NOVEMBER OF 2016.

IT WAS BARELY A WEEK AFTER DONALD TRUMP WON THE ELECTION THAT WOULD SUCCEED HIM AND HE CAME TO REASSURE THE WORLD THAT THE SYSTEM WOULD PREVAIL.

>> AS LONG AS WE RETAIN OUR FAITH IN DEMOCRACY, AS LONG AS WE RETAIN OUR FAITH IN THE PEOPLE, AS LONG AS WE DON'T WAVER FROM THOSE CENTRAL PRINCIPLES THAT ENSURE A LIVELY, OPEN DEBATE, THEN OUR FUTURE WILL BE OKAY.

BECAUSE IT REMAINS THE MOST EFFECTIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT EVER DEVISED BY MAN.

>> NOW, SIX YEARS ON, THERE'S COMPELLING EVIDENCE THAT DEMOCRACIES ARE WAVERING.

THE GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR KEEPS WIDENING FUELING ECONOMIC ANXIETY.

AUTHORITARIANISM IS ON THE RISE.

EUROPE IS AT WAR AND THE GLOBAL RULE OF LAW IS UNDER THREAT.

BARACK OBAMA IS TRYING TO RAISE THE ALARM FROM THE BATTLEFIELDS OF UKRAINE TO THE BALLOT BOX OF TEXAS AND HE IS CELEBRATING THE NEXT GENERATION OF DEMOCRATIC LEADERS LEARNING FROM HIS FOUNDATION.

LATER IN THE PROGRAM, YOU WILL HEAR OUR CONVERSATION WITH THEM.

BUT FIRST, WILL DEMOCRACY CLAW ITS WAY BACK?

I SPOKE EXCLUSIVELY WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA IN ATHENS AT THE CENTER DEVOTED TO CIVIL SOCIETY AND DISCOURSE.

>> MR. PRESIDENT, WELCOME.

>> IT IS WONDERFUL TO BE WITH YOU.

>> CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR COMMITMENT TO DEMOCRACY RIGHT HERE IN ATHENS?

YOU DID GIVE A SPEECH, YOUR LAST SPEECH AS PRESIDENT, ABOUT A WEEK AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP WON.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR FAITH IN, YOU KNOW, THE SOLIDITY OF THE DEMOCRATIC IDEALS.

A LOT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THEN.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT WAY?

DO YOU STILL FEEL DEMOCRACY WILL WIN?

>> I DO FEEL DEMOCRACY WILL WIN IF WE FIGHT FOR IT.

ONE OF THE THEMES OF THAT SPEECH, I THEN, A YEAR OR SO LATER, THE CENTENNIAL OF NELSON MANDELA'S BIRTHDAY GAVE A DEMOCRACY ABOUT SPEECH AS WELL.

IT HAS CONTINUED TO BE AN OBSESSION OF MINE WITH THE FOUNDATION.

DEMOCRACY IS NOT SELF-EXECUTED.

IT DEPENDS ON THE ENGAGEMENT OF CITIZENS.

AND AN ACTIVE MOBILIZATION OF PEOPLE AROUND THE BELIEF, NOT JUST IN ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE, BUT THE BELIEF IN SELF- GOVERNANCE AND RULE OF LAW.

AND INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY AND THE FREE PRESS.

ALL THE CIVIC INSTITUTIONS THAT GO INTO MAKING A DEMOCRACY WORK.

AND I THINK IT IS INDISPUTABLE THAT A COMBINATION OF FORCES HAVE PUT ENORMOUS STRAINS ON DEMOCRACY AND WE HAVE SEEN A BACKLASH AGAINST DEMOCRATIC IDEALS AROUND THE WORLD.

IT HAS HAPPENED IN EUROPE.

IT HAS HAPPENED IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD.

AROUND THE MEDITERRANEAN.

IT IS HAPPENING IN ASIA.

THE REASON I'M OPTIMISTIC IS BECAUSE I BELIEVE, PARTICULARLY AS I MEET YOUNG PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, THERE IS STILL A FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF IN THE WORTH OF INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR AGENCY IN DETERMINING WHAT THEIR LIVES ARE LIKE.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE WANT.

OUR EXISTING DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS ARE CREEKY.

AND WE WILL HAVE TO REFORM THEM.

>> SO LET'S ASK ABOUT THE CREEKY OR NOT INSTITUTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE SPECTACLE OF A FORMER PRESIDENT BEING FEDERALLY INDICTED, HOW IS THE REST OF THE WORLD, THE DEMOCRATIC WORLD, MAYBE EVEN THE NONDEMOCRATTIC WORLD MEANT TO INTERPRET THAT INDICTMENT AND THE FACT THAT A FEDERAL INDICTEE IS ABLE TO RUN FOR THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE LAND, MAYBE THE WORLD?

>> IT'S LESS THAN IDEAL.

BUT, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A FORMER PRESIDENT WHO IS HAVING TO ANSWER TO CHARGES BROUGHT BY PROSECUTORS DOES UPHOLD THE BASIC NOTION THAT NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

AND THE ALLEGATIONS WILL NOW BE SORTED OUT THROUGH A COURT PROCESS.

AND I THINK I AM MORE CONCERNED WHEN IT COMES TO THE UNITED STATES WITH THE FACT THAT ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL IS BEING ACCUSED OF UNDERMINING EXISTING LAWS, BUT THAT MORE BROADLY, WE HAVE SEEN WHETHER IT IS THROUGH THE GERRYMANDERING OF DISTRICTS, WHETHER IT IS TRYING TO SILENCE CRITICS THROUGH CHANGES IN LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, WHETHER IT IS ATTEMPTS TO INTIMIDATE.

A STRAND OF ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SENTIMENT THAT YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS RIGHT NOW MOST PROMINENT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS UNIQUE TO ONE PARTY.

LESS TOLERANCE FOR IDEAS THAT DON'T SUIT US.

AND IT IS SORT OF THE HABITS OF A FREE AND OPEN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS AND THE IDEA THAT WE ALL AGREE TO THE RULES OF THE GAME AND EVEN IF THE OUTCOMES AREN'T ALWAYS THE ONES WE LIKE, WE STILL ABIDE BY THOSE RULES.

I THINK THAT IS WEAKENED SINCE I LEFT OFFICE.

AND WE WILL NEED TO STRENGTHEN THEM AGAIN.

>> I NEED TO ASK YOU AGAIN.

A FOLLOW-UP ON THAT.

WHAT HAPPENS IF DONALD TRUMP WINS AGAIN?

IT IS SAID THAT THE INSTITUTIONAL GUARDRAILS OF THE AMERICAN DEMOCRACY WAS STRONG ENOUGH TO SURVIVE A ONE-TERM PRESIDENCY, ARE THEY STRONG ENOUGH TO SURVIVE IF THAT KIND OF PERSON, PERSONALITY WINS AGAIN?

>> I WON'T SPECULATE ON THE OUTCOME OF A FUTURE ELECTION.

OBVIOUSLY, I'M A DEMOCRAT.

I HAVE A DEEP.

>> I MEAN THE INSTITUTIONS.

>> BUT I WILL MAKE A GENERAL STATEMENT.

WHICH IS HAVING BEEN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, YOU NEED A PRESIDENT WHO TAKES THE OATH OF OFFICE SERIOUSLY.

YOU NEED A PRESIDENT WHO BELIEVES NOT JUST IN THE LETTER BUT IN THE SPIRIT OF DEMOCRACY.

AND THE ESSENTIAL SPIRIT OF DEMOCRACY IS THAT AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, YOU ARE JUST ONE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE IN A SERIES OF COEQUAL BRANCHES.

THERE ARE CHECKS AND BALANCES TO THE SYSTEM AND YOU ARE SUBJECT TO THOSE BALANCES.

YOU CANNOT IGNORE THEM.

YOU CANNOT MAKE YOUR OWN RULES.

YOU CANNOT VIEW THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AS YOUR PERSONAL LAW FIRM.

YOU CANNOT IGNORE NORMS AND GUARDRAILS THAT HAD BEEN PUT IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT YOUR SELF INTEREST ISN'T WHAT DRIVES THESE INSTITUTIONS BUT IS RATHER THE INTEREST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

AND SO, IF YOU HAVE ANYBODY WHO IS OCCUPYING THAT OFFICE WHO DISREGARDS THAT HIGHER PURPOSE, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THROUGH THE MECHANISM OF VOTING, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REAFFIRM THEIR BELIEF IN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

AND THE OTHER THING CHRISTIANE, I DO THINK THAT WHAT HAPPENS IN THE UNITED STATES MATTERS AROUND THE WORLD.

AND THE THING, SOMETIMES I'M ASKED WHAT SURPRISED YOU ABOUT BEING PRESIDENT.

AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, I KNEW I WAS GOING TO BE BUSY.

AND I KNEW THAT OBVIOUSLY, THE UNITED STATES IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY POWERFUL COUNTRY.

THE IDEA OF AMERICA, THE IDEA OF THE POSSIBILITY OF A MULTIRACIAL, MULTIETHNIC, MULTIRELIGIOUS, LARGE, BIG, COMPLICATED COUNTRY STILL BEING ABLE TO FUNCTION AS A DEMOCRACY, THAT IS AN IMPORTANT IDEA FOR THE WORLD.

AND WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE AMERICA'S DEMOCRACY IS TEETERING OR BREAKING DOWN, THEN I THINK IT EMBOLDENS THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD AND IT WORRIES AND WEAKENS DEMOCRATIC FORCES IN OTHER PLACES.

>> SO PRESIDENT BIDEN, A MAN YOU KNOW EXTREMELY WELL, HAS MADE THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY THE CENTERPIECE OF HIS ADMINISTRATION.

IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT RIGHT NOW, THERE IS ALSO NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, THREATS TO DEMOCRACY BY DICTATORSHIPS AND AUTOCRATS BUT IN LIBERAL DEMOCRACY AS WELL.

HE HAS CALLED THE PRESIDENT OF CHINA A DICTATOR AND IS STICKING WITH IT.

HE IS ALSO HOSTING AS WE SPEAK THE PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA, MODI, WHO IS CONSIDERED AUTOCRATIC OR AT LEAST A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.

HOW SHOULD A PRESIDENT ENGAGE WITH THOSE KINDS OF LEADERS EITHER IN THE NAMING OF THEM OR THE DEALING OF THEM?

>> LOOK, IT'S COMPLICATED.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS A LOT OF EQUITIES.

AND WHEN I WAS PRESIDENT, I WOULD DEAL WITH FIGURES, IN SOME CASES WHO WERE ALLIES, WHO IF YOU PRESSED ME IN PRIVATE, DO THEY RUN THEIR GOVERNMENTS AND THEIR POLITICAL PARTIES IN WAYS THAT I WOULD SAY ARE IDEALLY DEMOCRATIC?

I WOULD HAVE TO SAY NO.

>> ANY NAMES?

>> NO, OF COURSE NOT.

BUT YOU HAVE TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM.

BECAUSE THEY ARE IMPORTANT FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS.

THERE ARE A RANGE OF ECONOMIC INTERESTS.

I HAD DEALT WITH CHINA TO GET THE PARIS ACCORDS DONE.

I DEALT WITH MODI TO GET THE PARIS ACCORDS DONE BECAUSE I THINK CLIMATE CHANGE IS SOMETHING THAT TRANSCENDS, YOU KNOW, ANY PARTICULAR MOMENTARY ISSUES.

IT IS A PROBLEM THAT HUMANITY HAS TO DEAL WITH THE NEXT SEVERAL DECADES IN A SERIOUS WAY.

I DO THINK THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHERE HE OR SHE CAN TO UPHOLD THOSE PRINCIPLES AND TO CHALLENGE TRENDS THAT ARE TROUBLING.

AND SO I'M LESS CONCERNED ABOUT LABELS THAN I AM ABOUT SPECIFIC PRACTICES.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO SAY THERE ARE PEOPLE IN CHINA BEING PLACED IN MASS CAMPS AND REEDUCATED.

QUOTE UNQUOTE.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

THAT'S A CHALLENGE TO ALL OF US AND WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT.

I THINK IT IS TRUE THAT IF THE PRESIDENT MEETS WITH PRIME MINISTER MODI THEN THE PROTECTION OF THE MUSLIM MINORITY IN A MAJORITY HINDU INDIA, THAT'S SOMETHING WORTH MENTIONING.

AND BY THE WAY, IF I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH PRIME MINISTER MODI WHO I KNOW WELL, PART OF MY ARGUMENT WOULD BE THAT IF YOU DO NOT PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF ETHNIC MINORITIES IN INDIA, THERE IS A STRONG POSSIBILITY THAT INDIA AT SOME POINT STARTS PULLING APART AND WE HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU START GETTING THOSE LARGE INTERNAL CONFLICTS.

SO THAT WOULD BE CONTRARY TO THE INTEREST NOT JUST OF MUSLIM INDIA, BUT ALSO HINDU INDIA.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS HONESTLY.

YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO HAVE, THINGS ARE NEVER GOING TO BE AS CLEAN AS YOU WOULD LIKE BECAUSE THE WORLD IS COMPLICATED.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN, EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT HIS AGE, HIS POLLS.

EVEN THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES WITHIN THE DEMOCRATS, MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT START TO TRY TO PRIMARY HIM, ET CETERA.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS MANY SAY THAT HIS POLICIES AND HIS LEGISLATIVES AND HIS WINS FRANKLY SINCE 2018, 2022 SHOULD SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES AND YET, ACCORDING TO THE WAY TO WIN, IT IS A DEMOCRAT LEANING COMPANY, FIRM.

AND ONLY SOME 22% OF LATINO VOTERS CAN ACTUALLY IDENTIFY SOMETHING THAT THEY SAY HE HAS DONE TO SPECIFICALLY MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT AND WOULD YOU, HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE HIM TO COLLECT IN A REELECTION?

>> I THINK JOE BIDEN HAS DONE AN EXTRAORDINARY JOB.

LEADING THE COUNTRY THROUGH SOME VERY DIFFICULT TIMES.

I DO NOT THINK THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE ANY KIND OF SERIOUS PRIMARY CHALLENGE TO JOE BIDEN.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS UNIFIED.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK, YOU'LL REMEMBER, WHEN HE WAS FIRST ELECTED BECAUSE BERNIE SANDERS HAS RUN THAT SOMEHOW THERE WAS A HUGE SPLIT BETWEEN PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS AND MORE CENTRIST DEMOCRATS AND THE TRUTH IS PARTLY BECAUSE OF HOW JOE IS GOVERNED, THOSE DIVISIONS HAVE BEEN BRIDGED.

I THINK WHAT'S TRUE IN AMERICAN POLITICS GENERALLY IS UNTIL YOU GET TO THE CAMPAIGNS, PEOPLE ARE NOT PAYING MUCH ATTENTION.

PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH A DIFFICULT TIME BECAUSE OF COVID AND THE PANDEMIC AND LOCKDOWNS.

BECAUSE OF INFLATION.

PRIMARILY THE RESULT OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND RISING ENERGY PRICES AS WELL AS SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.

AND SO PEOPLE HAVE MEMORIES ABOUT, A, IT GOT MORE EXPENSIVE AND GAS WAS MORE EXPENSIVE.

AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING AS MUCH ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT FOR EXAMPLE THE AFRICAN AMERICAN UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS LOWER THAN IT HAS BEEN IN DECADES.

THE CAMPAIGN WILL ALLOW PRESIDENT BIDEN TO MAKE THOSE ARGUMENTS.

AND I THINK THAT IN A MEDIA ENVIRONMENT THAT IS SO CLUTTERED, IT IS VERY HARD TO BREAKTHROUGH UNTIL YOU GET TO ELECTION TIME.

YOU'LL RECALL WHEN I RAN FOR REELECTION IN 2012, MY POLL NUMBERS WEREN'T THAT GREAT.

AND WE ENDED UP WINNING COMFORTABLY.

PART OF THAT WAS JUST WE STARTED CAMPAIGNING AND WE WERE ABLE TO GET A MESSAGE OUT AND PEOPLE SAID YEAH.

YOU KNOW.

THAT POLICY OR THIS POLICY OR THIS THING LEFT UNDONE IRRITATED ME A LITTLE BIT.

BUT OVERALL, I THINK HE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL CONCLUDE ABOUT JOE BIDEN AS WELL.

>> WHEN RUSSIA STARTED THE SECOND ILLEGAL INVASION OF UKRAINE, I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT DEMOCRACY, IT IS A WAKEUP CALL.

DEMOCRACIES ARE GETTING FLABBY AND FECKLESS.

WHERE DOES UKRAINE IN YOUR VIEW STAND IN THE FIGHT TO PRESERVE DEMOCRACY?

>> I THINK IT'S VITAL.

IT IS INTERESTING.

BEFORE I LEFT OFFICE, I GAVE SPEECHES NOT JUST HERE IN ATHENS BUT ALSO IN HAMBURG.

IN LONDON.

AND ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I MADE IS DO NOT TAKE FOR GRANTED THE EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT OF THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE FACT THAT A CONTINENT THAT WAS RACKED BY WAR AND BLOODSHED FOR CENTURIES WAS NOW AS PROSPEROUS AND AS PEACEFUL AS ANY IN HISTORY.

AND THEN, NOW WE HAVE SEEN THE FIRST WAR ON EUROPEAN SOIL IN RECENT MEMORY.

AND I THINK IT WAS A WAKEUP CALL TO EUROPE.

AND I THINK IT WAS A WAKEUP CALL TO THE WEST AND TO DEMOCRACIES AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT THE OLD WAYS OF THINKING, THAT BIG COUNTRIES CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT TO SMALL COUNTRIES.

THAT PEOPLE CANNOT INDEPENDENTLY DETERMINE THEIR FUTURES.

THAT THOSE FORCES HAVE TO BE CONFRONTED, WATCHING THE UKRAINIANS THEMSELVES WITH SUCH COURAGE AND BRAVERY FIGHT BACK.

I THINK THAT REMINDED EUROPE OF WHO THEY WERE AND I HAVE BEEN IMPRESSED BY THE DEGREE TO WHICH, NOT EASY CIRCUMSTANCES, EUROPE HAS STOOD UP.

IT HAS PROVIDED THE AID THAT WAS NECESSARY.

I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS VERY DEFTLY MANAGED MAINTAINING THAT ALLIANCE TO SUPPORT UKRAINE.

AND I BELIEVE THE STAKES ARE HIGH TO SEND A MESSAGE TO SOMEBODY LIKE PUTIN THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO JUST BE ABLE TO WILLY NILLY DETERMINE THE BORDERS OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

>> SO OBVIOUSLY HINDSIGHT IS A GREAT THING.

2020 VISION IS A GREAT THING.

BUT YOU EXPERIENCED WHILE YOU WERE IN OFFICE PUTIN'S FIRST INVASION.

THE ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA.

AND MANY PEOPLE SAID NEITHER YOU NOR THE WESTERN ALLIES STOOD UP AND PUT ENOUGH RED LINES AROUND HIM AROUND THAT.

SO WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT AND I WANTED TO ADD ALSO YOUR FRIEND, YOUR GOOD FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE ANGELA MERKEL IS UNDER SERIOUS SCRUTINY.

SHOULD SHE HAVE LEVERAGED GERMANY'S ECONOMY, ITS ENERGY ON THE ADDICTION TO CHEAP ENERGY IN RUSSIA?

WAS THAT A MISTAKE?

>> YOU KNOW I THINK THE UKRAINE OF THAT TIME IS NOT THE UKRAINE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THERE WAS NOT AN ARMED INVASION OF CRIMEA.

BECAUSE CRIMEA WAS FULL OF A LOT OF RUSSIAN SPEAKERS AND THERE WAS SOME SYMPATHY TO THE VIEW THAT RUSSIA WAS REPRESENTING ITS INTERESTS.

THE UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT ITSELF STILL HAD A NUMBER OF RUSSIAN SYMPATHIZERS.

AND THE POLITICS INSIDE UKRAINE WERE MORE COMPLICATED.

AND PART OF WHAT HAPPENED WAS BOTH MYSELF, BUT ALSO MERKEL WHO I GIVE ENORMOUS CREDIT FOR HAD TO PULL IN A LOT OF OTHER EUROPEANS KICKING AND SCREAMING TO IMPOSE THE SANCTIONS THAT WE DID AND TO PREVENT PUTIN FROM CONTINUING THROUGH THE DONBASS INTO THE REST OF UKRAINE.

SO I ACTUALLY THINK THAT GIVEN BOTH WHERE UKRAINE WAS AT, AT THE TIME.

AND WHERE THE EUROPEAN MINDSET WAS AT THE TIME, WE HELD THE LINE.

AND PART OF WHAT HAPPENED WAS OVER TIME, A SENSE OF UKRAINIAN IDENTITY SEPARATE FROM RUSSIA AND A DETERMINATION TO PUSH BACK AGAINST RUSSIA AND AN ABILITY TO PREPARE BOTH MILITARILY AND CIVICALLY, TO RESIST RUSSIAN PRESSURE, THEY BUILT UP THOSE MUSCLES AND THAT WAS PART OF THE REASON THEY WERE ABLE TO RESPOND THE WAY THEY DID WHEN YOU ACTUALLY SAW WHAT WAS IN MY VIEW AT LEAST, AN INCREDIBLY MISGUIDED, NOT TO MENTION ILLEGAL AND INCREDIBLY CRUEL INCURSION BY RUSSIAN FORCES.

>> DO YOU THINK PUTIN SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED MORE THEN?

>> I THINK WE CHALLENGED PUTIN WITH THE TOOLS THAT WE HAD AT THE TIME, GIVEN WHERE UKRAINE WAS AT THE TIME.

>> HOW DO YOU THINK IT WILL END?

>> I DON'T THINK ANY OF US KNOW.

AND I THINK ANYBODY WHO SPECULATES, I THINK.

>> BACK TO THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD.

YOU SAID RECENTLY IN A SPEECH, THAT IF WE KEEP HAVING THESE TERRIBLE DIFFERENCES THAT WE HAVE, WE WILL DESTROY EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER.

I SPOKE TO ONE OF THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, FORMER GOVERNOR ASA HUTCHESON OF ARKANSAS WHO SAID TO ME ABOUT VARIOUS NAME CALLING AND TRIBALISM.

HE SAID GIVE THE CANDIDATES THE CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES AMERICANS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

LET'S USE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE AND BE CLEAR WE HAVE DIFFERENCES OF POLICY.

BUT THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE THE PERSON ON THE OTHER SIDE AN EVIL PERSON OR SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T LOVE OUR COUNTRY.

DO YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS WILL COALESCE AROUND THAT KIND OF MESSAGE?

>> NO.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT IS WHERE THEIR HEAD IS AT RIGHT NOW.

NOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IS NOT ATTAINABLE OVER TIME.

YOU KNOW, LOOK.

IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO THAT I GOT A LOT OF REPUBLICAN VOTES.

IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO THAT JOHN MCCAIN WAS THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE AND ACTIVELY SHUT DOWN A SPEAKER AT A TOWN HALL WHO WAS SAYING THAT I WAS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN BENT ON IMPOSING SHARIA LAW ON THE UNITED STATES.

AND THERE ARE STILL A BUNCH OF FOLKS WHO ARE MORE POLITICALLY CONSERVATIVE THAN I AM ON SOCIAL ISSUES, ON ECONOMIC ISSUES, BUT WHO I CONSIDER GOOD PEOPLE, THOUGHTFUL PEOPLE, WHO I LEARNED FROM AND WHO I ENJOY CONVERSATIONS WITH.

AND SO THE POLARIZATIONS WE HAVE SEEN IN OUR NATIONAL POLITICS IS NOT IDENTICAL TO WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND.

BUT WHAT IS TRUE IS PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING INFORMATION THESE DAYS, THE SILOING OF INFORMATION, IF YOU ARE WATCHING FOX NEWS OR FOLLOWING SOME RIGHT WING RADIO HOST OR GETTING FACEBOOK FEEDS WITHIN THAT BUBBLE, YOUR REALITY IS DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU READ THE NEW YORK TIMES OR WATCH YOUR PROGRAM.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE GETTING SUCH FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT FACTS, OR WHAT THEY THINK TO BE FACTS, OR THEIR WORLD VIEWS ARE SO SKEWED IN ONE DIRECTION OR ANOTHER, THEN IT IS VERY HARD FOR DEMOCRACY TO WORK.

SO THIS IS THE REASON WHY I HAVE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME IN THE FOUNDATION AND IN OTHER WORK TALKING ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS OF MISINFORMATION.

NOT JUST THE MISINFORMATION WE ARE SEEING PUTIN ENGAGE IN, IN THE UKRAINE SITUATION.

NOT JUST DURING ELECTION TIME.

MAKING PEOPLE FEARFUL OF EACH OTHER.

AND I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM THAT GETS MORE PRONOUNCED WITH THE ADVENT OF AI AND DEEP FAKES AN ALL THESE CHALLENGES.

>> AND WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LOT WITH THE LEADERS IN THE SECOND PART OF THIS PROGRAM.

I WANTED TO ASK YOU BEFORE I GOT TO THEM FINALLY, RACE, YOU ARE THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.

WHEN TRUMP WAS ELECTED, SOMEBODY WHO USED TO WORK FOR YOU AND IS NOW AN ANALYST, VAN JONES SAID IT WAS THE WHITE LASH AGAINST A BLACK PRESIDENCY.

DO YOU THINK THE WHITE LASH IS RECEDING, COMBINING THAT?

HOW DO YOU INTERPRET TWO CANDIDATES OF COLOR, OF SOUTH CAROLINA WHO SAYS OBAMA WANTS TO KEEP RACE AS PART OF THE EQUATION, THE CONVERSATION.

AND YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE IN THE UNITED STATES NO MATTER WHAT THEIR COLOR.

>> WELL LOOK.

I WON'T COMMENT ON WHAT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES SAY.

I'M NOT RUNNING.

THEY CAN FIND OTHER WAYS TO OCCUPY THEIR TIME.

I THINK RACE IS THE FAULT LINE IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

LIFE IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

THAT'S NOT ORIGINAL TO ME.

I THINK ANY OBSERVER OF AMERICA WOULD SAY THAT.

AND BY THE WAY, THAT HISTORICALLY IS NOT SERVED IN A ONE-SIDED PARTISAN ISSUE.

DID AN AWFUL LOT TO ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF FREEDOM AND CONVERSELY, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS WHERE THE DIXIECRATS RESISTED CIVIL RIGHTS AND PROGRESS FOR YEARS.

AND IMPOSED JIM CROW.

SO IT IS SOMETHING THAT AMERICA HAS HAD TO GRAPPLE WITH FOR CENTURIES.

I THINK WE HAVE MADE REAL PROGRESS.

ALTHOUGH I WAS ALWAYS SKEPTICAL MY ELECTIONS SHOWED A POST RACIAL AMERICA.

I WAS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO REMINDED THE COUNTRY OF THE PROGRESS THAT WAS POSSIBLE.

THAT WAS MY BRAND.

THAT IS PART OF THE HOPE AND CHANGE THING.

BUT WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS SAID ABOUT HOPE IS IT CAN'T BE BLIND HOPE.

IT CAN'T BE A WILLFUL IGNORANCE TO OUR HISTORY.

WE RECKON WITH OUR HISTORY.

THAT IS HOW WE THEN GET BETTER.

THAT IS HOW WE PERFECT OUR UNION.

IN THE SAME WAY THAT GERMANY GOT BETTER WHEN IT LOOKED SQUARELY AT WHAT HAPPENED DURING WORLD WAR II.

AND CAME TO TERMS WITH THAT.

AND THAT'S PART OF WHY IT IS A THRIVING STABLE AND INCREASINGLY DIVERSE SOCIETY.

THAT IS PART OF THE ARGUMENT I THINK THAT ALL OF US, NOT JUST IN THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE BUT AROUND THE WORLD HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH.

HUMANS HAVE A STRONG DESIRE TO COALESCE, PARTICULARLY DURING TIMES OF STRESS, AROUND TRIBE, CLAN, RACE.

WHATEVER OUR RELIGIOUS PREFERENCES ARE.

AND POLITICIANS HAVE A GOOD WAY OF EXPLOITING THAT.

AND IF WE DON'T RESIST IT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS.

BY THE WAY, IT'S NOT JUST THAT US THEM DYNAMIC IS NOT JUST AROUND RACE.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT IN THE UNITED STATES, AND I SUSPECT IN EUROPE AS WELL, CHANGING GENDER ROLES HAVE FUELED AT LEAST AS MUCH OF A BACKLASH AS THE RACIAL BACKLASH.

THIS ENORMOUS FEAR AMONG MEN AND THOSE WHO LIKE THE TRADITIONAL STRUCTURES AND HIERARCHIES AND PATRIARCHY GET NERVOUS WHEN YOU SUDDENLY HAVE WOMEN BEING OUTSPOKEN AND THINKING THEY SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AND POWER THAT MEN DO.

AND WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS SAYING I'M HERE.

I WANT A SEAT AT THE TABLE.

THAT HAS BEEN VERY THREATENING.

AND THERE'S ONE LAST INGREDIENT THAT I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T MENTION.

BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS ALSO PART OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT AT THIS CONFERENCE WE ARE AT.

I HAVE MENTIONED THIS BEFORE.

I DO THINK THERE IS AN ECONOMIC ELEMENT TO OUR DEMOCRACY THAT WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO.

OUR DEMOCRACY IS NOT GOING TO BE HEALTHY WITH THE LEVELS OF INEQUALITY THAT WE HAVE SEEN GENERATED FROM GLOBALIZATION, AUTOMATION, THE DECLINE IN UNIONS, OBSCENE INEQUALITY.

YOU THINK ABOUT NEWS OF THE DAY.

GENERALLY WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT NEWS OF THE DAY BUT WE HAVE 24-HOUR COVERAGE AND I UNDERSTAND IT.

OF THIS SUBMARINE.

THIS SUBMERSIBLE THAT TRAGICALLY IS LOST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA.

AT THE SAME TIME, RIGHT HERE, JUST OFF THE COAST OF GREECE, WE HAD 700 PEOPLE DEAD.

700 MIGRANTS WHO WERE APPARENTLY BEING SMUGGLED INTO HERE AND IT MADE NEWS BUT IT IS NOT DOMINATING IN THE SAME WAY.

AND IN SOME WAYS IT IS INDICATIVE OF THE DEGREE TO WHICH PEOPLE'S LIFE CHANGES HAVE GROWN SO DISPARATE.

IT IS VERY HARD TO SUSTAIN A DEMOCRACY WHEN YOU HAVE SUCH MASSIVE CONCENTRATIONS OF WEALTH.

PART OF MY ARGUMENT HAS BEEN UNLESS WE ATTEND TO THAT, UNLESS WE MAKE PEOPLE FEEL MORE ECONOMICALLY SECURE AND WE ARE TAKING MORE SERIOUSLY THE NEED TO CREATE LADDERS OF OPPORTUNITY AND A STRONGER SAFETY NET THAT IS ADAPTED TO THESE NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND THE DISPLACEMENTS TAKING PLACE AROUND THE WORLD, IF WE DON'T TAKE CARE OF THAT, THAT IS ALSO GOING TO FUEL THE MOSTLY FAR RIGHT POPULISM BUT IT CAN ALSO POTENTIALLY COME TO THE LEFT, THAT IS UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY BECAUSE IT MAKES PEOPLE ANGRY AND RESENTFUL AND SCARED.

>> AND WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT IN THE SECOND PART OF THIS PROGRAM.

WITH THE OBAMA FOUNDATION YOUTH LEADERS AND YOURSELF.

>> I LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

>> AND JUST TO NOTE, WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION JUST BEFORE NEWS BROKE THAT THE SUBMERSIBLE SUFFERED A CATASTROPHIC IMPLOSION AND ALL THE CREW HAD BEEN LOST.

>>> OBAMA IS PARTICULARLY PROUD OF THE MENTOR SHIP THAT HIS FOUNDATION IS PROVIDING SO WHEN THREE OF THOSE YOUTH LEADERS JOIN US, WE HEARD HOW THOSE MEMBERS IN AN EMERGING GENERATION ARE ENGAGING IN DEMOCRACY AT THIS CRUCIAL TIME.

HADJA ISA COMES FROM SUDAN.

HER COUNTRY IS A FLEDGLING DEMOCRACY THREATENED BY WAR.

HADJA HAS WORKED IN REFUGEE CAMPS FOSTERING PEACEFUL RECONCILIATION.

AND SHE IS FOUNDER OF A NON- PROFIT ORGANIZATION HELPING WOMEN OF COLOR WORLDWIDE.

SUMMER IS A CONSULTANT IN HAWAII.

DEVELOPING LEADERSHIP SKILLS TO STRENGTHEN VULNERABLE POPULATIONS.

AND BENETT IS COFOUNDER OF AN ETHIOPIAN BASED TECH TRAINING PROGRAM WHICH HAS TAUGHT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CODING SKILLS.

THEY HAVE ALL SPENT THIS WEEK IN ATHENS FOR THE CULMINATION OF THEIR TRAINING PROGRAM INCLUDING A VISIT TO THE HOME PROJECT WHICH CARES FOR CHILDREN WHOSE LIVES ARE WRECKED BY WAR AND PERSECUTION.

THE LEADERS TALKED TO US ABOUT THE MOMENT THEY WERE SELECTED.

>> BUT I WAS IN SHOCK.

I NEVER HAD KNOWN ANYONE THAT LOOKED LIKE ME GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS BEFORE.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MY COMMUNITY FLOURISHING AND HAVING ALL THE FREEDOM AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE WOMEN RIGHTS.

>> SOMETIMES THE WORK WE DO IS REALLY DIFFICULT AND IT FEELS LONELY.

BUT IN METING THEM, I REALIZED THERE ARE SO MANY OF US THAT GO THROUGH THE SAME JOURNEY.

>> THESE OBAMA FOUNDATION GRADUATES JOINED OUR CONVERSATION WITH THEIR PERSPECTIVES ON HOW COLLECTIVELY TO STRENGTHEN DEMOCRACY, BY FORGING SOLUTIONS ON THREATS LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE, THE AI UPHEAVAL AND WOMEN'S EMPOWERMENT.

>>> ALL RIGHT, MR. PRESIDENT, WELCOME BACK.

AND LEADERS, WE WERE TALKING JUST BEFORE THE BREAK ABOUT THE PERVASIVE MYSOGENY AND PHYSICAL ATTACKS AROUND THE WORLD.

I WANTED TO ASK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF DEMOCRACY WHEN HALF THE GLOBE'S POPULATION IS KEPT DOWN AND STILL IS?

>> YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION.

WHEN YOU HAVE HALF THE POPULATION BEING SUPPRESSED, OFTEN VIOLENTLY, THEN BY DEFINITION, DEMOCRACY IS NOT FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT SHOULD.

AND WHAT IS ALSO TRUE IS THAT WHEN WOMEN ARE NOT EMPOWERED, TYPICALLY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE THE CARE GIVERS WHICH MEANS CHILDREN ARE NOT EMPOWERED.

AND THE KINDS OF ISSUES WHETHER IT IS HEALTH CARE OR EDUCATION, KITCHEN TABLE ISSUES.

THOSE ARE NOT BEING ATTENDED TO.

AND SO WE ARE DEPRIVING OURSELVES OF A SET OF PERSPECTIVES VITAL TO MAKING DEMOCRACY WORK.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT COUNTRIES THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL, THEY ARE COUNTRY INS WHICH WOMEN ARE EMPOWERED.

AND COUNTRIES THAT ARE LESS SUCCESSFUL THAT STAGNATE, THAT ARE MORE LIKELY TO ENGAGE IN CONFLICT AND ARE MORE VIOLENT ARE TYPICALLY ONES IN WHICH WOMEN ARE SUPPRESSED.

>> SO THERE IS A NEW REPORT THAT CAME OUT THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS.

THE U.N.

GENDER INDEX.

AND IT SHOWS THAT SOME NINE OUT OF TEN PEOPLE ARE BIASED AGAINST WOMEN IN ABOUT 80 COUNTRIES THEY SURVEYED.

ABOUT HALF SAY MEN MAKE BETTER LEADERS, MEN ARE BETTER BUSINESS LEADERS AND A QUARTER OF THE RESPONDENTS SAY THEY ACCEPT MEN BEATING THEIR WIVES.

A QUARTER OF THE RESPONDENTS.

LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU COME FROM SUDAN, YOU ARE LIVING BACK AND FORTH IN EUROPE AND YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED WAR AND REFUGEE STATUS.

TELL ME HOW IT AFFECTS YOU AND IN YOUR COMMUNITY BUILDING THE SUPPRESSION OF WOMEN STILL.

>> WELL, STEPPING INTO THAT, AND GOING BACK TO HOW SUDAN WORKS WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN'S RIGHTS, SUDAN HAS BEEN FACING THIS MASSIVE WAVE OF HAVING THIS KIND OF EXPLAINING TO WOMEN THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING, WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TOLD YOU CANNOT VOTE.

WHO IS GOING TO TAKE YOUR VOTE.

YOU CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN ANYTHING.

YOU ARE NOT AS EQUAL AS MEN ARE.

SO HAVING ALL OF THOSE CHALLENGES THAT ARE BEING FACED BY WOMEN, IT KIND OF RESHAPED HALF OF THE WOMEN IN SUDAN INTO NOT KNOWING WHAT KIND OF LEADERS THEY CAN ACTUALLY BE.

SO THE POWER THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE IN THEM.

IT TAKES AGES FOR WOMEN TO LEARN THEY HAVE THE POWER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE A VOICE AND THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE RESPECTED AS WELL.

STEPPING INTO RESPECT.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CHALLENGE FOR SUDANESE WOMEN TO BE RESPECTED.

ESPECIALLY BY MEN.

BECAUSE FOR THEM, IT IS LIKE WE ARE THE LEADERS.

WE RULE THE FAMILY.

IT IS ONLY US, NOBODY ELSE.

AND FOR ME I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CHALLENGED BY IT.

BUT I GREW UP IN A FAMILY THAT ALWAYS TAUGHT ME THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AS LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WE TRUST YOU ENOUGH.

SO I WANTED TO REFLECT THAT IN MY OWN WAY.

IT TOOK ME A LOT OF TIME.

WE WENT BACK TO DARFOR.

IT WAS MASSIVE AND SO UNFORTUNATE.

I WENT THERE, I SAT DOWN WITH FAMILIES IN REFUGEE CAMPS AND TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO THEM THE IMPORTANCE OF HOW THEY SHOULD LET THEIR GIRLS GO TO SCHOOL.

I WAS THE ENEMY WHEN I STARTED TALKING ABOUT THAT.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW I WAS ACTUALLY TRYING TO HELP.

THEY ARE LIKE YOU ARE WORKING AGAINST CULTURE.

HERE WE SEE HOW CULTURE IS PLAYING A MAIN ROLE IN SHAPING THE COMMUNITY.

>> WE HAVE YOU THREE WOMEN LEADERS HERE.

I'M SURE THE OBAMA FOUNDATION HAS MALE LEADERS AS WELL.

BUT HERE WE ARE, THE THREE WOMEN LEADERS.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT YOU GET FROM THE FOUNDATION AND WHAT THE FOUNDATION IS DESIGNED FOR IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, GETTING INFORMATION FROM EACH OTHER.

SHARING EXPERIENCES.

COMMUNITY BUILDING.

>> JUST TO ADD ONE THING THAT IS REALLY KEY WHEN IT COMES TO THE WOMEN'S RIGHT ISSUE.

IT HAS TO DO WITH REPRESENTATION.

WHAT DO WE SEE REPRESENTED?

ACROSS THE BOARD, I THINK WE HAVE AN ISSUE OF HAVING FEMALE LEADERS THAT WE ACTUALLY CAN SEE OURSELVES REPRESENTED IN.

WE HAVE A LACK OF COMMUNITIES AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LED BY WOMEN.

WE ALSO HAVE AN ISSUE OF NETWORKING.

HAVING A SAFE SPACE WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT WITH OTHER WOMEN AND MEN.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THE OBAMA FOUNDATION AND THE OBAMA LEADERSHIP HAS GIVEN ME AS A LEADER IS TRULY THE NETWORKING.

THE ROLE MODELS I NEEDED.

I WOULD SIT IN A BUS.

TRAVEL TO THE SILICON VALLEY OF EUROPE.

LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW SEEING THESE AMAZING COMPANIES.

IT'S A TECH HUB.

AND SITTING IN THE BUS HOLDING IN MY HAND A DEVICE.

SO THROUGHOUT MY ENTIRE LIFE AS A 14-YEAR-OLD OR AS A 25-YEAR- OLD, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CONNECTED WITH TECHNOLOGY IN MY HAND.

BUT LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW, I MADE A DECISION AS A YOUNG GIRL, I WILL NEVER EVER GET A JOB IN TECH.

AND THE MAIN REASONS IS IF YOU DON'T SEE YOURSELF REPRESENTED, WHAT WILL YOU BECOME?

SO I NEVER SAW A WOMAN THAT LOOKED LIKE MYSELF THAT WAS IN TECH.

>> FOR YOU, A FELLOW HAWAIIAN, CLIMATE MUST BE A HUGE ISSUE, RIGHT?

AND SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE VOTE ON CLIMATE AND THAT'S A HUGE CONCERN FOR THEM.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ALL CAN DO TO MOVE THIS IN A WAY THAT WILL ACTUALLY MAKE CHANGE WHILE GOVERNMENTS ARE STILL UNABLE TO SHOW THE FULL POLITICAL WILL?

>> SUCH A GREAT QUESTION.

FOR ME AND ALL OF THE OTHER PACIFIC ISLANDS THAT ARE QUICKLY LOSING LAND MASS BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE, IT IS SO IMPORTANT NOW MORE THAN EVER TO BE ABLE TO TELL OUR STORIES AND TO REACH OUT TO PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE TO OUR NEW COLLEAGUES IN THE NETWORK.

AND TO BE ABLE TO FIND OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONNECTING AND HELPING THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE GOING THROUGH ON A DAILY BASIS, THE STORMS ARE BIGGER, THE SURGES ARE BIGGER, THE REEFS ARE DISAPPEARING, THE FISH ARE NOT THERE.

PEOPLE CANNOT SURVIVE ANYMORE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE LEADERSHIP AND THE NETWORK PROVIDES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET HELP.

SO WHAT WE LIKE TO SAY IN THE PACIFIC ISLANDS IS, IT IS NOT A SEA OF ISLANDS.

NOT ISLAND INS THE SEA, BUT A SEA OF ISLANDS.

SO WE WANT TO MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS ACROSS THE WORLD WITH EVERYONE.

>> AND YOU ARE SO HOPEFUL.

BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN SAID AND WE TOUCHED ON IT.

THAT THIS WORLD, IN FACT, THE HEAD OF THE IMF TOLD ME, OUR WORLD HAS THE TECHNOLOGY.

HAS THE KNOWLEDGE.

HAS THE MONEY.

HAS THE ABILITY.

JUST NOT THE WILL OFFICIALLY.

TO SOLVE JUST ABOUT EVERY PROBLEM WE HAVE.

ARE YOU HOPEFUL?

>> YES, ALWAYS HOPEFUL.

WE ARE HOPE PEOPLE.

YOU CANNOT BE IN THIS WORK AND NOT WAKE UP EVERY DAY HOPEFUL FOR THE FUTURE.

YOU FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO.

BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS ARE SO HARD.

BUT WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S EYES AND WE ASK FOR HELP AND WE LOOK FOR OTHER SOLUTIONS.

AND WE FOUND A FAMILY WE DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE MISSING BECAUSE THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO WILL HELP TO GREASE THE WHEELS AND TO MAKE CHANGE ACROSS SECTORS AND ACROSS NATIONS.

>> AND YOU TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

SO, SOME OF THE LEADERS IN OUR NETWORK HAVE LED MASS MOVEMENTS.

INCLUDING SOME OF THE BIG PROTESTS AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE AND STUDENTS IN EUROPE.

SOME ARE WORKING TO CREATE A CONSERVATION CORE TO PREVENT DEFORESTATION IN SOUTHEAST ASIA.

AND THEY ARE WORKING VILLAGE BY VILLAGE TRYING TO TEACH NEW FORESTRY PRACTICES.

SOME OF THEM ARE CREATING CLEAN ENERGY PROGRAMS IN AFRICA.

WORKING WITH VILLAGERS TO CREATE EASILY SOLAR CHARGED BATTERIES.

AND NETWORKS THAT CAN LEAPFROG OLD DIRTY FUEL STYLED DEVELOPMENT AND GO TO CLEAN ENERGY DEVELOPMENT.

WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN THEY ALL TALK TO EACH OTHER, THEY SUDDENLY REALIZE OH, WHAT I'M DOING IN GERMANY IS CONNECTED TO WHAT I'M DOING IN VIETNAM.

AND THAT CONNECTS TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SUDAN.

NOW THEY ARE SAYING THIS DISPLACEMENT IS IN PART BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T GROW FOOD ON THEIR LAND AND THAT IS CAUSING CONFLICT IN COUNTRIES THAT ARE SENDING PEOPLE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO SURVIVE.

SO WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT AS WELL.

CREATING THOSE NETWORKS, EXCHANGES OF IDEAS.

THAT FUELS OPTIMISM.

WE GET CYNICAL.

WE DESPAIR WHEN WE FEEL ALONE.

WHEN WE ARE TOGETHER, WE SAY TO OURSELVES, OH, MAYBE WE CAN FIGURE THIS OUT.

AND CLIMATE CHANGE IS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT YES, IT IS NOT HAPPENING AS FAST AS WE WOULD LIKE.

BUT I CONSTANTLY REMIND OUR YOUNG LEADERS, WE MADE ENORMOUS PROGRESS.

WHEN I CAME IN, IN 2008 DURING THE FINANCIAL CRISIS, THE ENTIRE CLEAN ENERGY INDUSTRY WAS ABOUT TO COLLAPSE IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT IS NOW BOOMING AND THE COST OF CLEAN ENERGY RELATIVE TO OLD FOSSIL FUELS AS EVENED OUT.

IT IS THESE LEAD EARTHS WILL FORCE US TO MAKE FASTER PROGRESS.

>> AND CLEAN UP OUR MESS.

>> YES.

>> CAN I END WITH A GOODIES CUSHION ON AI?

YOU DID A SERIES ON WORK AND YOU SAID THE MOST WORK THAT MOST AMERICANS DO ESSENTIALLY IN SERVICE, FAIRLY LOW PAID, IT IS NOT SO MUCH A FOOTHOLD, BUT IT IS A TREADMILL.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY WAY TO GET ANY FURTHER.

THAT'S ONE THING.

THE OTHER THING IS AI.

HOW DOES IT CONVINCE LEADERS THAT AI CAN IMPROVE AND ENHANCE THEIR WORK OPPORTUNITIES RATHER THAN ELIMINATE THEIR WORK?

PRESIDENT BIDEN, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME ASK YOU.

ARE YOU AFRAID THAT AI IS GOING TO ELIMINATE US AS WORKERS, AS THE HUMAN RACE?

>> I AM AFRAID OF THE DIGITAL ILLITERACY.

NOT ONLY IN EUROPE, BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE CONNECT THAT TO THE FIRST QUESTION THAT YOU HAD.

CONCERNING WOMEN AND RIGHTS.

WHETHER IT IS FASHION OR MAKEUP OR PRODUCTION IN MEDIA.

IT IS EVERYWHERE.

THE LATEST NUMBER WAS 12 MILLION.

BUT I WOULD SAY THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE MISSING IN THE TECH SCENE.

WHICH ALSO REFERS TO THE NEED FOR COMPETENCE.

AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THE RAPID DEVELOPMENT THAT WE HAVE SEEN WITHIN TECHNOLOGY.

THE RAPID DEVELOPMENT OF THINGS THAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND MAKES US AFRAID.

SO THE LITERACY IS CRUCIAL.

MAKING SURE THAT THE YOUNGER GENERATION, THE NEXT COMING GENERATION UNDERSTANDS THAT IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO HAVE A COMPETENCE.

TO HAVE AN EDUCATION ON A HIGH LEVEL.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS CONTINUE LEARNING.

WHAT IS AI TODAY MIGHT NOT BE AI TOMORROW.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN TO THE WEST COAST TO TALK TO THE AI LEADERS, TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT REGULATION.

AND IT SEEMS TO BE COMMONLY AGREED.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THIS.

THAT IT HAS TO BE REGULATED.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

AND WHAT IS YOUR WORSE NIGHTMARE SITUATION IF IT IS NOT REGULATED AI?

>> THIS IS A POWERFUL TECHNOLOGY AND IT IS COMING FAST.

AND IF IT KIND OF GOES INTO THE WILD THE WAY SOCIAL MEDIA DID WITHOUT US THINKING THROUGH THE CONSEQUENCES, WE COULD HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS WITH AI.

WE WILL HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS WITH AI.

NATIONAL SECURITY PROBLEMS, JOB DISPLACEMENT PROBLEMS.

MISINFORMATION PROBLEMS THAT UNDERMINE OUR DEMOCRACY.

AND SO YES.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO REGULATE IT IN AN INTELLIGENT WAY.

THERE IS ENORMOUS POTENTIAL.

YOU THINK ABOUT THE INCREDIBLE WORK THAT THEY ARE DOING TO TRY TO EMPOWER PEOPLE WHO HAVE VERY LITTLE ACCESS TO EDUCATION.

IF HARNESSED CORRECTLY, YOU CAN HAVE AI TEACHERS THAT MUCH MORE CHEAPLY ARE DELIVERING A VERY GOOD EDUCATION TO PEOPLE IN REMOTE AREAS.

THAT'S A POWERFUL THING.

AND BY THE WAY, IF YOU HAVE VILLAGES WHERE GIRLS HAVE TROUBLE GETTING TO SCHOOL, BUT YOU CAN GET THEM A DEVICE AND THEY CAN LEARN ON THEIR OWN, THAT CAN BREAK DOWN BARRIERS AS WELL.

SO THAT IS THE UPSIDE.

THE DANGER IS THAT IF IT IS WEAPONNIZED, IT CAN BE A VERY POWERFUL TOOL FOR MISCHIEF.

AND SO THERE IS AN ENTIRE NATIONAL SECURITY DEVELOPMENT AROUND THIS.

THE JOB DISPLACEMENT IS GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANT.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT WE NEED TO TRAIN OUR YOUNG PEOPLE TO NOT JUST BE CONSUMERS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY.

BUT TO UNDERSTAND AND PRODUCE AND SHAPE HOW THIS TECHNOLOGY WORKS.

THE POTENTIAL FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN JOBS THAT CAN BE DONE REMOTELY TO BE REPLACED ENTIRELY BY MACHINES, I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL HAPPEN FAIRLY QUICKLY.

THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO WORK MORE CREATIVELY AROUND THE SORT OF THINGS THAT MACHINES CAN'T DO.

MACHINES CAN'T CARE FOR EACH OTHER.

MACHINES CAN'T TEND TO SOMEBODY WHO IS ILL.

THEY CAN'T TEACH WITH JOY A CHILD.

AND INSPIRE THEM.

YOU KNOW, AND A LOT OF THOSE, BY THE WAY, ARE TRADITIONALLY WOMEN'S WORK.

THAT IS UNDERVALUED AND UNDERPAID.

PART OF WHAT WE WILL HAVE TO DO IS NOT JUST REGULATE THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT RECOGNIZE WE HAVE TO RESHAPE OUR SOCIETY TO LIFT UP AND REASSESS WHAT IS MOST VALUABLE IN THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE AND A LOT OF IT IS THE KINDS OF WORK THAT WOMEN DO OFTEN UNCOMPENSATED BUT MAKES LIFE WORTHWHILE.

>> AND I GUESS FINALLY, BECAUSE WE ARE OUT OF TIME, IT IS SAID GREECE BELIEVED SINCE WE ARE IN GREECE THAT DEMOCRACY IS ONLY AS HEALTHY AS THE WILLINGNESS OF CITIZENS TO ENGAGE AND SACRIFICE, TO ENGAGE AND DEFEND THE DEMOCRACY AND TO DO THE WORK.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

ARE ENOUGH PEOPLE OF YOUR GENERATION WILLING TO DO THAT?

NOT JUST GO SHOPPING AND ME, ME, ME SORT OF CAPITALISM.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE CAPITALISM AND THE INEQUALITY.

AND THAT IS PART OF THIS AS WELL.

>> I BELIEVE THAT IS TOTALLY CORRECT AND IT IS PROOF TO ME HOW WE ARE ALL TOGETHER TO SHAPE DEMOCRACY.

I MET A LOT OF AMAZING LEADERS AND I FEEL I WAS AT SOME POINT FEELING THAT I WAS ALONE.

AND SEEING THIS, IT MADE ME FELL LIKE WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

SO YEAH.

I TOTALLY AGREE TO THAT.

>> THE SLIDE TO CHAOS IS REAL.

AND THAT'S A REAL CHALLENGE TO GET PEOPLE ORGANIZED AND MOTIVATED.

TO INVEST IN DEMOCRATIC VALUES IS REALLY TOUGH.

AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK WHAT WE SAW DURING THE PANDEMIC IS ONCE IT STARTS TO HIT LOTS OF PEOPLE.

I THINK EVERYBODY STARTS TO PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ATTENTION.

AND I THINK FOR SURE, WE ARE EITHER AT OR PAST THAT BREAKING POINT AND PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEED TO PROTECT A RIGHT TO EDUCATION, A RIGHT TO PROSPERITY AND SOME DEGREE OF PEACE AND SECURITY.

ALL OF THESE THINGS WE NEED IN ORDER TO SURVIVE AS A PEOPLE.

AS A HUMAN PEOPLE.

AND THAT I THINK WILL FUEL A MOTIVATION TO MAKE PROGRESS TOWARDS THESE DEMOCRATIC VALUES.

>> WHAT I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IS THE NEXT COMING GENERATION THAT ARE INFORMED, EMPOWERED, ENGAGED, AND I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS IS TO BUILD COMMUNITIES WHERE YOU CAN FIND YOUR SAFE SPACE.

YOU HAVE SOMEONE TO LOOK UP TO.

WHERE YOU CAN GROW IN YOUR NETWORK.

YOU CAN GO PAST THE KNOWLEDGE AND BUILD YOUR COMPETENCE IN ORDER TO REALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE WORTHY OF A BETTER LIFE.

ONCE YOU DO BELIEVE THAT, WE HAVE SEEN THAT IS WHEN YOU CREATE A BETTER LIFE FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

>> AND ONE LAST THING I WILL SAY ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE AND DEMOCRACY.

AND I MENTIONED THIS I THINK IN ONE OF THE MEETINGS WE HAD, IN ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY, YOUNG PEOPLE VOTED IN LOWER LEVELS.

THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT CAREERS.

SCHOOLS, GETTING A JOB.

ROMANCE.

STARTING FAMILIES.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF DISTRACTIONS.

AND DEMOCRACY CAN SEEM LIKE SOME ABSTRACTION THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO WORRY ABOUT.

BUT WHAT I HAVE INCREASINGLY SEEN IS THAT YOUNG PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THE EXISTING INSTITUTIONS AREN'T WORKING FOR THEM.

IT IS OUR JOB, YOURS, MINE, I'M MUCH OLDER THAN YOU.

IT IS OUR JOB TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO LEAD.

BECAUSE IT TURNS OUT THAT WHEN YOU ARE WILLING TO SEED SOME POWER.

WHEN YOU ARE WILLING TO SAY WHAT IDEAS DO YOU HAVE?

LET'S PUT YOU IN CHARGEOVER THIS.

HOW WOULD YOU REORGANIZE THIS?

THEY WILL SEIZE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

AND I THINK PART OF THE MESSAGE THAT WE HAVE AT THE FOUNDATIONS, IS IT IS TIME FOR US TO PASS THAT TORCH.

THEY ARE READY TO RUN THE RACE.

AND THEY ARE ALREADY RUNNING IT.

SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT IS OLD HEADS LIKE ME GETTING IN THE WAY.

BUT I'M CONFIDENT AND HOPEFUL THAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO CLEAN UP OUR MESS AS YOU PUT IT.

>> WELL LISTEN, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF AMANPOUR & COMPANY ON PBS.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOOD- BYE FROM ATHENS.

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